Discussion:
Don't eat gringo Spinach! Mexico orders products containing fresh US spinach removed from ...
(demasiado antiguo para responder)
Jose
2006-09-19 14:06:22 UTC
Permalink
International Herald Tribune, France - 10 hours ago
MEXICO CITY Mexico on Monday ordered grocers to pull products
containing fresh US spinach off their shelves and warned its citizens
against eating them, after ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/19/america/LA_GEN_Mexico_US_Tainted_Spinach.php
GatherNoMoss
2006-09-19 14:23:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jose
International Herald Tribune, France - 10 hours ago
MEXICO CITY Mexico on Monday ordered grocers to pull products
containing fresh US spinach off their shelves and warned its citizens
against eating them, after ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/19/america/LA_GEN_Mexico_US_Tainted_Spinach.php
Oh for crying out loud the e-coli comes from Mexican illegals shitting
on our freaking SPINACH in the farm fields !!

I'M FREAKING LOSING MY MIND !!!
Ramon
2006-09-19 14:57:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by GatherNoMoss
Post by Jose
International Herald Tribune, France - 10 hours ago
MEXICO CITY Mexico on Monday ordered grocers to pull products
containing fresh US spinach off their shelves and warned its citizens
against eating them, after ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/19/america/LA_GEN_Mexico_US_Tainted_Spinach.php
Oh for crying out loud the e-coli comes from Mexican illegals shitting
on our freaking SPINACH in the farm fields !!
I you know that, of course, because you have been lying on the fields
with your mouth and the Mexican workers mistake it for a
Johnny-on-the-spot.
Post by GatherNoMoss
I'M FREAKING LOSING MY MIND !!!
Given what you have been feeding your mind, it is small wonder.

-Ramon
RLunfa
2006-09-19 16:05:38 UTC
Permalink
"GatherNoMoss" <***@yahoo.com> escribió en el mensaje
[...]
Post by GatherNoMoss
I'M FREAKING LOSING MY MIND !!!
Igual que Edmundo.

Debe ser la ingesta de grasas y aceites hidrogenados.

RLunfa
T Jr Hardman
2006-09-19 18:14:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by GatherNoMoss
Post by Jose
International Herald Tribune, France - 10 hours ago
MEXICO CITY Mexico on Monday ordered grocers to pull products
containing fresh US spinach off their shelves and warned its citizens
against eating them, after ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/19/america/LA_GEN_Mexico_US_Tainted_Spinach.php
Oh for crying out loud the e-coli comes from Mexican illegals shitting
on our freaking SPINACH in the farm fields !!
I'M FREAKING LOSING MY MIND !!!
You know, this is shaping up to be the Second Football War, if you
recall those hostilities between Guatemala and El Salvador.

As I recall, that first war ended with the expulsion of almost a million
Salvadorans from Guatemala, which led to economic destabilization in El
Salvador, resulting in the imposition of militarism with consequences of
the Salvadoran Civil War, which in turn fed the Communist insurgency in
Nicaragua, etc. 30 years later, in the USA, we are feeling the
after-effects in the form of Maras Salvatruchas gangsters recruiting new
members in our grammar schools.

Now, as Mexico bans imports of Spinach from the USA, the consequences
will probably include mass unemployment of Mexican illegal-alien
agricultural laborers. With no hopes of agricultural employment in the
USA -- they are being let go from work by the thousands -- they must
return to Mexico where they will depress the wages of all other
comparable workers. Perhaps Mexico will end up in the position of
Guatemala, El Salvador, and Nicaragua, with Oaxaca already on the edge
of secession and a contested election leaving thousands camped out in
Mexico DF.

Perhaps we live in interesting time, historically speaking. If violence
erupts in Mexico, the USA's troops are all overseas getting their asses
shot off in Iraq and Afghanistan and with the Administration already
pressing for expanding the scope of hostilities to include Iran and
possibly even North Korea.
--
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak foolishness and remove all doubt.
--Aesop
Zerge
2006-09-19 19:19:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
Post by GatherNoMoss
Post by Jose
International Herald Tribune, France - 10 hours ago
MEXICO CITY Mexico on Monday ordered grocers to pull products
containing fresh US spinach off their shelves and warned its citizens
against eating them, after ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/19/america/LA_GEN_Mexico_US_Tainted_Spinach.php
Oh for crying out loud the e-coli comes from Mexican illegals shitting
on our freaking SPINACH in the farm fields !!
I'M FREAKING LOSING MY MIND !!!
I assume this is a joke. But in case it is not, here are my comments.
Post by T Jr Hardman
You know, this is shaping up to be the Second Football War, if you
recall those hostilities between Guatemala and El Salvador.
As I recall, that first war ended with the expulsion of almost a million
Salvadorans from Guatemala, which led to economic destabilization in El
Salvador, resulting in the imposition of militarism with consequences of
the Salvadoran Civil War, which in turn fed the Communist insurgency in
Nicaragua, etc. 30 years later, in the USA, we are feeling the
after-effects in the form of Maras Salvatruchas gangsters recruiting new
members in our grammar schools.
Now, as Mexico bans imports of Spinach from the USA, the consequences
will probably include mass unemployment of Mexican illegal-alien
agricultural laborers.
Right. Mexico imports most spinachs produced by the US? I doubt that
very much.
And mass unemployment of illegal workers sounds rather unlikely, since
only a small % work specifically in the spinach business.


With no hopes of agricultural employment in the
Post by T Jr Hardman
USA -- they are being let go from work by the thousands -- they must
return to Mexico where they will depress the wages of all other
comparable workers.
Nope. Agricultural wages are as depressed as they can be. Plus we have
a minimum wage; it can't be lower than that.

Perhaps Mexico will end up in the position of
Post by T Jr Hardman
Guatemala, El Salvador, and Nicaragua,
With all due respect to our Central American brothers, whom I respect
and like, Mexico is not a small Central American nation. We are the
12th largest economy in the world, with a GDP of one trillion USD/year.
In other words, a rather big boat, not a dinky that will sink in a
small storm.

with Oaxaca already on the edge
Post by T Jr Hardman
of secession
Yeah, right. Their budget comes 90%+ from the federation, so does their
electricity and fuel. The day they can survive without that, they can
secede :)



and a contested election leaving thousands camped out in
Post by T Jr Hardman
Mexico DF.
That's over. They all left. I saw Reforma with my own eyes.
Post by T Jr Hardman
Perhaps we live in interesting time, historically speaking. If violence
erupts in Mexico,
Violence in Mexico never really materializes, just like in the US.
Sometimes we have flareups, but never a revolution. Just like the US.
Remember the LA riots?
Remember the Zapatistas? Poor bastards actually thought they where
gonna take Mexico City. But in fact they never made it out of the
Chiapas jungle, and got put down in a week or so.
So don't worry, we don't have a Revolución scheduled anytime soon. But
if we do, I'll let you know :)


the USA's troops are all overseas getting their asses
Post by T Jr Hardman
shot off in Iraq and Afghanistan and with the Administration already
pressing for expanding the scope of hostilities to include Iran and
possibly even North Korea.
--
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak foolishness and remove all doubt.
--Aesop
Ramon F Herrera
2006-09-19 19:33:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zerge
With all due respect to our Central American brothers, whom I respect
and like, Mexico is not a small Central American nation. We are the
12th largest economy in the world, with a GDP of one trillion USD/year.
In other words, a rather big boat, not a dinky that will sink in a
small storm.
In support of what Zerge says, there was some statistics that surprised
me. I wish I could find that info again. It turns out that Mexico buys
more from the United States than a whole bunch of european countries
(something like Italy, France and Germany) *combined*.

-Ramon
Zerge
2006-09-19 21:41:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ramon F Herrera
Post by Zerge
With all due respect to our Central American brothers, whom I respect
and like, Mexico is not a small Central American nation. We are the
12th largest economy in the world, with a GDP of one trillion USD/year.
In other words, a rather big boat, not a dinky that will sink in a
small storm.
In support of what Zerge says, there was some statistics that surprised
me. I wish I could find that info again. It turns out that Mexico buys
more from the United States than a whole bunch of european countries
(something like Italy, France and Germany) *combined*.
-Ramon
Which is no surprise, since we have NAFTA, and Mexico is economically
larger than those countries (overall GDP, not GDP/capita, obviously)
Don Gabacho
2006-09-19 22:44:37 UTC
Permalink
Which is no surprise, since we have NAFTA,...
Sergio: its the beginning of the end for that malicious baloney too.
Zerge
2006-09-19 22:01:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ramon F Herrera
Post by Zerge
With all due respect to our Central American brothers, whom I respect
and like, Mexico is not a small Central American nation. We are the
12th largest economy in the world, with a GDP of one trillion USD/year.
In other words, a rather big boat, not a dinky that will sink in a
small storm.
In support of what Zerge says, there was some statistics that surprised
me. I wish I could find that info again. It turns out that Mexico buys
more from the United States than a whole bunch of european countries
(something like Italy, France and Germany) *combined*.
-Ramon
Ramon, you can find a lot of interesting stats about Mexico here:
http://dgcnesyp.inegi.gob.mx/cgi-win/bdieintsi.exe
Betrayed Nation
2006-09-19 22:40:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ramon F Herrera
Post by Zerge
With all due respect to our Central American brothers, whom I respect
and like, Mexico is not a small Central American nation. We are the
12th largest economy in the world, with a GDP of one trillion USD/year.
In other words, a rather big boat, not a dinky that will sink in a
small storm.
In support of what Zerge says, there was some statistics that surprised
me. I wish I could find that info again. It turns out that Mexico buys
more from the United States than a whole bunch of european countries
(something like Italy, France and Germany) *combined*.
-Ramon
And yet they are still a third world nation because of the ignorance
they keep everyone there in.
Don Gabacho
2006-09-19 22:34:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zerge
Post by T Jr Hardman
Now, as Mexico bans imports of Spinach from the USA, the consequences
will probably include mass unemployment of Mexican illegal-alien
agricultural laborers.
Right. Mexico imports most spinachs produced by the US?
Why are you always such a jerk? That Mexico is banning spinich from the
U.S. would contribute to the unemployment of "Mexicans Abroad" has
nothing to do with "most" of Mexico's spinich being imported or not.
Post by Zerge
I doubt that
very much.
"Doubt" all you want, or not, it is still as ignorantly irrelevent.
Post by Zerge
And mass unemployment of illegal workers sounds rather unlikely, since
only a small % work specifically in the spinach business.
There you go with the %s again.

It matters not: the fields are being plowed under---they are out of
work.
Post by Zerge
With no hopes of agricultural employment in the
Post by T Jr Hardman
USA -- they are being let go from work by the thousands -- they must
return to Mexico where they will depress the wages of all other
comparable workers.
Nope. Agricultural wages are as depressed as they can be. Plus we have
a minimum wage; it can't be lower than that.
Again irrelevent. They are not going to be picked up by the grower's
buses at the border, and, one way or the other, they are not going to
be allowed to start roaming the U.S..

If they head for Mexico, voluntarily or not, its Mexico's problem what
kind of work they do or don't do. Unless, of course, they are
"licensed" spinich pickers.
Post by Zerge
Perhaps Mexico will end up in the position of
Post by T Jr Hardman
Guatemala, El Salvador, and Nicaragua,
With all due respect to our Central American brothers, whom I respect
and like, Mexico is not a small Central American nation. We are the
12th largest economy in the world, with a GDP of one trillion USD/year.
In other words, a rather big boat, not a dinky that will sink in a
small storm.
Great! You should have no problem then sending busses to California,
pick them up and take them home.
Post by Zerge
with Oaxaca already on the edge
Post by T Jr Hardman
of secession
Yeah, right. Their budget comes 90%+ from the federation, so does their
electricity and fuel.
But that is in part why they are seceding: they no longer want to be
subject to the return of their tax, and even tribute, monies being
subject to the extortion you again porpose.
Post by Zerge
The day they can survive without that, they can
secede :)
Oh. They'll manage. Probably better than ever.
Post by Zerge
and a contested election leaving thousands camped out in
Post by T Jr Hardman
Mexico DF.
That's over. They all left. I saw Reforma with my own eyes.
Because they are now, like the Barzons only on a much larger scale,
going to start tying-up the whole country instead of just downtown
Mexico City.

Moreover, they will be returning, if they've gone far at all, Nov.
20th: probably to, in part, kick off their national campaign.
Post by Zerge
Post by T Jr Hardman
Perhaps we live in interesting time, historically speaking. If violence
erupts in Mexico,
Violence in Mexico never really materializes, just like in the US.
Sometimes we have flareups, but never a revolution.
Mexico never has "revolution"?

Just how many stories high was the building you must have fallen off to
land on your noggin to come up with that?

I truly hope Fox and his assholes back-off from their fraud and go
smoke big fat cigars in Spain. No one wishes violence, but it will come
when Fox or Calderon attempts to confront the new Republic's tax
collectors.
Post by Zerge
Just like the US.
Remember the LA riots?
Remember the Zapatistas? Poor bastards actually thought they where
gonna take Mexico City. But in fact they never made it out of the
Chiapas jungle, and got put down in a week or so.
So don't worry, we don't have a Revolución scheduled anytime soon. But
if we do, I'll let you know :)
You can underestimate or deliberately minimize what has been
transpiring in Mexico, and will continue to transpire till doomsday,
yet it will not stop the events from unfolding even as they have.
Zerge
2006-09-20 00:16:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Gabacho
Post by Zerge
Post by T Jr Hardman
Now, as Mexico bans imports of Spinach from the USA, the consequences
will probably include mass unemployment of Mexican illegal-alien
agricultural laborers.
Right. Mexico imports most spinachs produced by the US?
Why are you always such a jerk?
How does my statement makes me such a jerk??


That Mexico is banning spinich from the
Post by Don Gabacho
U.S. would contribute to the unemployment of "Mexicans Abroad" has
nothing to do with "most" of Mexico's spinich being imported or not.
Yes it does John. If Mexico where the main importer of spinachs, then a
ban from Mexico could, indeed, cause some sort of effect in the spinach
market. Which does not seem to be the case.
Post by Don Gabacho
Post by Zerge
I doubt that
very much.
"Doubt" all you want, or not, it is still as ignorantly irrelevent.
You really have trouble understanding logical arguments, don't you.
And it's "irrelevant", and "spinach". More typos? Or time for new
reading glasses?
Post by Don Gabacho
Post by Zerge
And mass unemployment of illegal workers sounds rather unlikely, since
only a small % work specifically in the spinach business.
There you go with the %s again.
It matters not: the fields are being plowed under---they are out of
work.
Post by Zerge
With no hopes of agricultural employment in the
Post by T Jr Hardman
USA -- they are being let go from work by the thousands -- they must
return to Mexico where they will depress the wages of all other
comparable workers.
Nope. Agricultural wages are as depressed as they can be. Plus we have
a minimum wage; it can't be lower than that.
Again irrelevent. They are not going to be picked up by the grower's
buses at the border, and, one way or the other, they are not going to
be allowed to start roaming the U.S..
IF illegal workers where to return to Mexico, agricultural wages would
not go much further down, since they already are pretty low. That's
what I'm saying. Get it? Read slowly. Or get new glasses.
Post by Don Gabacho
If they head for Mexico, voluntarily or not, its Mexico's problem what
kind of work they do or don't do. Unless, of course, they are
"licensed" spinich pickers.
Post by Zerge
Perhaps Mexico will end up in the position of
Post by T Jr Hardman
Guatemala, El Salvador, and Nicaragua,
With all due respect to our Central American brothers, whom I respect
and like, Mexico is not a small Central American nation. We are the
12th largest economy in the world, with a GDP of one trillion USD/year.
In other words, a rather big boat, not a dinky that will sink in a
small storm.
Great! You should have no problem then sending busses to California,
pick them up and take them home.
I personally wouldn't, except I'm not in charge, so nobody pays any
attention to me :)
Post by Don Gabacho
Post by Zerge
with Oaxaca already on the edge
Post by T Jr Hardman
of secession
Yeah, right. Their budget comes 90%+ from the federation, so does their
electricity and fuel.
But that is in part why they are seceding: they no longer want to be
subject to the return of their tax, and even tribute, monies being
subject to the extortion you again porpose.
No, you see, poor states such as Oaxaca and Chiapas are NET receivers
of federal money. Your argument would work maybe in states such as
Nuevo Leon, which I believe produces more wealth than it receives back
from the feds.
In other words rich states subsidize poor states. It's like that in the
US also, isn't it?
Post by Don Gabacho
Post by Zerge
The day they can survive without that, they can
secede :)
Oh. They'll manage. Probably better than ever.
Unfortunately it won't happen, so we won't be able to watch the
phenomenon and learn from it.
Post by Don Gabacho
Post by Zerge
and a contested election leaving thousands camped out in
Post by T Jr Hardman
Mexico DF.
That's over. They all left. I saw Reforma with my own eyes.
Because they are now, like the Barzons only on a much larger scale,
going to start tying-up the whole country instead of just downtown
Mexico City.
Maybe, for a while, sure.
But where is El Barzón now?
Post by Don Gabacho
Moreover, they will be returning, if they've gone far at all, Nov.
20th: probably to, in part, kick off their national campaign.
Post by Zerge
Post by T Jr Hardman
Perhaps we live in interesting time, historically speaking. If violence
erupts in Mexico,
Violence in Mexico never really materializes, just like in the US.
Sometimes we have flareups, but never a revolution.
Mexico never has "revolution"?
Not since 1910, no.
Post by Don Gabacho
Just how many stories high was the building you must have fallen off to
land on your noggin to come up with that?
I truly hope Fox and his assholes back-off from their fraud and go
smoke big fat cigars in Spain. No one wishes violence, but it will come
when Fox or Calderon attempts to confront the new Republic's tax
collectors.
Tax collectors?? :)
Hacienda has a hard time collecting taxes from us. You think the
pseudo-republic of Lopez Obrador could do better??? :)
Post by Don Gabacho
Post by Zerge
Just like the US.
Remember the LA riots?
Remember the Zapatistas? Poor bastards actually thought they where
gonna take Mexico City. But in fact they never made it out of the
Chiapas jungle, and got put down in a week or so.
So don't worry, we don't have a Revolución scheduled anytime soon. But
if we do, I'll let you know :)
You can underestimate or deliberately minimize what has been
transpiring in Mexico, and will continue to transpire till doomsday,
yet it will not stop the events from unfolding even as they have.
John, I'm telling you. All this shit already happened in 1988. Wheren't
you here in 1988? Things got much more serious then. And one of our
worst crises was in 1994 and 1995, the worst crisis sin the Cristero
war probably. And yet here we are.
We'll make it through Lopez's toy republic too.
Earle Horton
2006-09-20 00:49:12 UTC
Permalink
---snippy---
Post by Zerge
Post by Don Gabacho
But that is in part why they are seceding: they no longer want to be
subject to the return of their tax, and even tribute, monies being
subject to the extortion you again porpose.
No, you see, poor states such as Oaxaca and Chiapas are NET
receivers of federal money. Your argument would work maybe
in states such as Nuevo Leon, which I believe produces more
wealth than it receives back from the feds.
In other words rich states subsidize poor states. It's like that in the
US also, isn't it?
Eso es lo que dicen, pero tengo mis dudas. Dudo que nos recibamos un
dólar por ciento de lo que les pagamos a los federales. Espero que todo
se use para financiar soborno en Washington y guerras sin sentido ni
razón en países pobres y remotos, de los que me importa un pepino.

Pero el precio de la gasolina acaba de bajarse $0.50 el galón, y todo
está bien.

Saludos,

Earle
Españuelo
2006-09-20 21:51:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Earle Horton
---snippy---
Post by Zerge
Post by Don Gabacho
But that is in part why they are seceding: they no longer want to be
subject to the return of their tax, and even tribute, monies being
subject to the extortion you again porpose.
No, you see, poor states such as Oaxaca and Chiapas are NET
receivers of federal money. Your argument would work maybe
in states such as Nuevo Leon, which I believe produces more
wealth than it receives back from the feds.
In other words rich states subsidize poor states. It's like that in the
US also, isn't it?
Eso es lo que dicen, pero tengo mis dudas. Dudo que nos recibamos un
dólar por ciento de lo que les pagamos a los federales. Espero que todo
se use para financiar soborno en Washington y guerras sin sentido ni
razón en países pobres y remotos, de los que me importa un pepino.
Pero el precio de la gasolina acaba de bajarse $0.50 el galón, y todo
está bien.
US gallon = 3.7831 liters, 0,50 dollars, 1 litre => 0,1321 dollars

1 litre => 0,1057 euros.


10,57 centims de euro seria unas 17,59 pessetas.



Aquí (Spain) la benzina a 1,10 euros litro, més de 10 vegadas més cara.
Post by Earle Horton
Saludos,
Earle
Don Gabacho
2006-09-20 01:00:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zerge
Post by Don Gabacho
Why are you always such a jerk?
How does my statement makes me such a jerk??
Geez. Go in the corner now with Edweenie and, while wearing a dunce cap
too, watch ten episodes of Howdy Doody in a row. If you're good, we'll
let you pick the spinich at the pinche Mexican wages---cabron.
Zerge
2006-09-20 18:25:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Gabacho
Post by Zerge
Post by Don Gabacho
Why are you always such a jerk?
How does my statement makes me such a jerk??
Geez. Go in the corner now with Edweenie and, while wearing a dunce cap
too, watch ten episodes of Howdy Doody in a row. If you're good, we'll
let you pick the spinich at the pinche Mexican wages---cabron.
Howdy Doody?? Man are you dating yourself!! :)

Now go to the blackboard and write "spinach" a thousand times.
dxAce
2006-09-21 01:22:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zerge
Post by Don Gabacho
Post by Zerge
Post by Don Gabacho
Why are you always such a jerk?
How does my statement makes me such a jerk??
Geez. Go in the corner now with Edweenie and, while wearing a dunce cap
too, watch ten episodes of Howdy Doody in a row. If you're good, we'll
let you pick the spinich at the pinche Mexican wages---cabron.
Howdy Doody?? Man are you dating yourself!! :)
Now go to the blackboard and write "spinach" a thousand times.
One thing is certain: The ONLY things Edweenie knows how to pick are his nose
and his ass.

He sure as hell doesn't know how to pick good tunes to play on the radio.

dxAce
Michigan
USA
Betrayed Nation
2006-09-19 22:40:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zerge
Post by T Jr Hardman
Post by GatherNoMoss
Post by Jose
International Herald Tribune, France - 10 hours ago
MEXICO CITY Mexico on Monday ordered grocers to pull products
containing fresh US spinach off their shelves and warned its citizens
against eating them, after ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/19/america/LA_GEN_Mexico_US_Tainted_Spinach.php
Oh for crying out loud the e-coli comes from Mexican illegals shitting
on our freaking SPINACH in the farm fields !!
I'M FREAKING LOSING MY MIND !!!
I assume this is a joke. But in case it is not, here are my comments.
Post by T Jr Hardman
You know, this is shaping up to be the Second Football War, if you
recall those hostilities between Guatemala and El Salvador.
As I recall, that first war ended with the expulsion of almost a million
Salvadorans from Guatemala, which led to economic destabilization in El
Salvador, resulting in the imposition of militarism with consequences of
the Salvadoran Civil War, which in turn fed the Communist insurgency in
Nicaragua, etc. 30 years later, in the USA, we are feeling the
after-effects in the form of Maras Salvatruchas gangsters recruiting new
members in our grammar schools.
Now, as Mexico bans imports of Spinach from the USA, the consequences
will probably include mass unemployment of Mexican illegal-alien
agricultural laborers.
Right. Mexico imports most spinachs produced by the US? I doubt that
very much.
And mass unemployment of illegal workers sounds rather unlikely, since
only a small % work specifically in the spinach business.
With no hopes of agricultural employment in the
Post by T Jr Hardman
USA -- they are being let go from work by the thousands -- they must
return to Mexico where they will depress the wages of all other
comparable workers.
Nope. Agricultural wages are as depressed as they can be. Plus we have
a minimum wage; it can't be lower than that.
Perhaps Mexico will end up in the position of
Post by T Jr Hardman
Guatemala, El Salvador, and Nicaragua,
With all due respect to our Central American brothers, whom I respect
and like, Mexico is not a small Central American nation. We are the
12th largest economy in the world, with a GDP of one trillion USD/year.
In other words, a rather big boat, not a dinky that will sink in a
small storm.
And you are still considered a third world nation because of your
ignorance.
Post by Zerge
with Oaxaca already on the edge
Post by T Jr Hardman
of secession
Yeah, right. Their budget comes 90%+ from the federation, so does their
electricity and fuel. The day they can survive without that, they can
secede :)
and a contested election leaving thousands camped out in
Post by T Jr Hardman
Mexico DF.
That's over. They all left. I saw Reforma with my own eyes.
Post by T Jr Hardman
Perhaps we live in interesting time, historically speaking. If violence
erupts in Mexico,
Violence in Mexico never really materializes, just like in the US.
Sometimes we have flareups, but never a revolution. Just like the US.
Remember the LA riots?
Remember the Zapatistas? Poor bastards actually thought they where
gonna take Mexico City. But in fact they never made it out of the
Chiapas jungle, and got put down in a week or so.
So don't worry, we don't have a Revolución scheduled anytime soon. But
if we do, I'll let you know :)
the USA's troops are all overseas getting their asses
Post by T Jr Hardman
shot off in Iraq and Afghanistan and with the Administration already
pressing for expanding the scope of hostilities to include Iran and
possibly even North Korea.
--
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak foolishness and remove all doubt.
--Aesop
Zerge
2006-09-20 21:33:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Betrayed Nation
Post by Zerge
With all due respect to our Central American brothers, whom I respect
and like, Mexico is not a small Central American nation. We are the
12th largest economy in the world, with a GDP of one trillion USD/year.
In other words, a rather big boat, not a dinky that will sink in a
small storm.
And you are still considered a third world nation because of your
ignorance.
Being a third world nation is a transitional status. The US was the
equivalent to a third world nation during the 18th and 19th century,
from the point of view of Europe: rich in resources, but restless,
disorganized, and corrupt. In fact, as late as the 1890s, Wall Street
was so corrupt and in such cahoots with the US Congress, that most
British investors woulnd't dare invest out of fear of being robbed
blind. The US was known in British financial circles as "the land of
thieves".

Mexico is in a transitional period between third and first world. If
you had finished HS, maybe you would know that Mexico is a member of
the OCDE, and is a middle income country. But of course you don't know
these kinds of things. It's not your fault; you are a victim of your
environment.
Don Gabacho
2006-09-20 22:23:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zerge
Mexico is in a transitional period between third and first world.
Which Mexico? Haven't you heard? There's a new Mexico.

In any case, Mexico has been in transition from barely third world to
fifth world.

"..If
Post by Zerge
you had finished HS, maybe you would know that Mexico is a member of
the OCDE, and is a middle income country.
You mean as like the corruption scale you always refer: right up there
with Uganda?

"..But of course you don't know
Post by Zerge
these kinds of things. It's not your fault; you are a victim of your
environment.
Well, Mexico could be a member of the Boy Scouts of American too, so
what?

If you can't absorb even the lessons of Howdy Doody, you will still
have to sit in the corner and watch it repeatedly until, like the
incessant dripping of water on a rock, it should finally penetrate.
T Jr Hardman
2006-09-21 00:43:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zerge
Post by Betrayed Nation
Post by Zerge
With all due respect to our Central American brothers, whom I respect
and like, Mexico is not a small Central American nation. We are the
12th largest economy in the world, with a GDP of one trillion USD/year.
In other words, a rather big boat, not a dinky that will sink in a
small storm.
And you are still considered a third world nation because of your
ignorance.
Being a third world nation is a transitional status. The US was the
equivalent to a third world nation
Not at all. It was, in fact, generally a depopulated wilderness. In
comparison to the other depopulated wildernesses of the world, we
weren't doing so badly. I might also add that for most of the 18th
Century, we were a colony of Britain.
Post by Zerge
during the 18th and 19th century,
from the point of view of Europe: rich in resources, but restless,
disorganized, and corrupt. In fact, as late as the 1890s, Wall Street
was so corrupt and in such cahoots with the US Congress, that most
British investors woulnd't dare invest out of fear of being robbed
blind. The US was known in British financial circles as "the land of
thieves".
Yes, and we actually _did_ something about the Robber Barons. When will
Mexico do the same? Before, or after, the US sinks again into the
corruption of its neighbor to the south?

You would do well to make the point, as well as to remember it, that
Mexico and the USA -- and Canada of course -- all inhabit the same
continent and if you want to use the image, Mexico and the USA are
pressed up against each other like the lips of lovers who each think
that the other is strange, and that they could do better if only they
had any choice. The fact is that we are stuck together as if in a
strange marriage arranged by the mocking Fates. As in any marriage you
can have all sorts of relationships. It could be a sweet romance but I
believe that particular honeymoon was over, a long time past. It could
be the sort of relationship you see between very old people, they don't
care too much for each other, but they know each other far better than
anyone else could know them, and so they stay together. It could be the
tempestuous romance between the sad older gentleman and the saucy young
lady, where everyone knows she sleeps with anyone and the old man seems
to be a fool to keep her, but every morning it is in his bed where she
wakes.

But the important thing to understand it this: in such a close
relationship, if one of the partners is sick, so is the other. I suppose
this is the point you had intended to make. Can the USA nurse Mexico
into health, into equality, to become a true peer? Or should we simply
say "oh man, she's sick as hell, she gets better on her own or she
doesn't get better". Part of that sort of decision is based on how the
partner would treat the other if the conditions or situation were
reversed. If Mexico is spewing pus and violently rejecting medical
attention, one is tempted to leave Mexico alone to heal or die as nature
and the course of the illness will require. If the USA is doing the
same, Mexican disdain and inattention should be expected.
Post by Zerge
Mexico is in a transitional period between third and first world. If
you had finished HS, maybe you would know that Mexico is a member of
the OCDE, and is a middle income country. But of course you don't know
these kinds of things. It's not your fault; you are a victim of your
environment.
Mexico, in my opinion, is in the position of most of the USA in the year
1950. The US had just won WWII, was barely recovering from the Dust Bowl
and the Depression and was doing so mostly by default; we had put an end
to the war with the application of vast scientific projects that
harnessed the power of the atomic nucleus and microwave radiation and
extremely basic computers (RADAR). Yet on the Indian Reservations the
native-americans lived a worse life than they did live when Cristobal
Colon "discovered" the New World, and most US citizens were dirt-poor
farmers or urban working poor who might not even be within reach of the
telephone or central-electric systems. Air-conditioning existed but was
not in much use, but a sudden rush of prosperity began to put the
products of modern science and industry into every home, even when the
people only knew how to operate a product, and had no idea at all of the
operating principles or even how their own political system was worked.

The way I hear it, in the most remote villages of Mexico there are
people with cellphones. They have not the least idea how to use the
text-messaging features because they cannot read. But they certainly use
the phones to pass news all around the countryside with the voice link,
even though they don't really understand how any of this can function.
"It's some kind of radio, whatever radio is, really, but you can choose
who will be the only one to hear your radio call."

Mexico will be a First World Country when a certain percentage of the
population can easily understand and teach others the very basics of
radio, when a smaller percentage of the population knows the details,
and when an even smaller -- but still significant -- percentage of the
population can build a radio and perhaps a smaller percentage can design
a cellphone.

Interestingly, right around WWII some outrageously large percentage of
the US population had built a "crystal radio set" from parts and had at
least a basic grasp of the math behind it, if not exactly being experts
in Maxwell's equations. Nowadays? Perhaps we in the USA are closer than
we dare think to being techno-barbarians, using tools of which we
haven't the least understanding. Probably almost nobody here has build a
crystal radio set or has the slightest real understanding of Maxwell or
even Marconi.

So perhaps the odd couple of Mexico and the USA are more equal than
either can know or will admit.
--
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak foolishness and remove all doubt.
--Aesop
The more unnatural anything is, the more it is
capable of becoming the object of dismal admiration.
--Thomas Paine, "Age of Reason"
Zerge
2006-09-21 15:33:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by T Jr Hardman
Post by Zerge
Post by Betrayed Nation
Post by Zerge
With all due respect to our Central American brothers, whom I respect
and like, Mexico is not a small Central American nation. We are the
12th largest economy in the world, with a GDP of one trillion USD/year.
In other words, a rather big boat, not a dinky that will sink in a
small storm.
And you are still considered a third world nation because of your
ignorance.
Being a third world nation is a transitional status. The US was the
equivalent to a third world nation
Not at all. It was, in fact, generally a depopulated wilderness. In
comparison to the other depopulated wildernesses of the world, we
weren't doing so badly. I might also add that for most of the 18th
Century, we were a colony of Britain.
Post by Zerge
during the 18th and 19th century,
from the point of view of Europe: rich in resources, but restless,
disorganized, and corrupt. In fact, as late as the 1890s, Wall Street
was so corrupt and in such cahoots with the US Congress, that most
British investors woulnd't dare invest out of fear of being robbed
blind. The US was known in British financial circles as "the land of
thieves".
Yes, and we actually _did_ something about the Robber Barons. When will
Mexico do the same? Before, or after, the US sinks again into the
corruption of its neighbor to the south?
Your conventional wisdom tells you that Mexico is very very very
corrupt. But your conventional wisdom is wrong. Mexico ranks about
average in the Corruption Index.
And yes, we do stuff about it all the time, you just don't know about
it, because you don't know ANYTHING about Mexico, and don't bother to
find out.
Post by T Jr Hardman
You would do well to make the point, as well as to remember it, that
Mexico and the USA -- and Canada of course -- all inhabit the same
continent and if you want to use the image, Mexico and the USA are
pressed up against each other like the lips of lovers who each think
that the other is strange, and that they could do better if only they
had any choice. The fact is that we are stuck together as if in a
strange marriage arranged by the mocking Fates. As in any marriage you
can have all sorts of relationships. It could be a sweet romance but I
believe that particular honeymoon was over, a long time past. It could
be the sort of relationship you see between very old people, they don't
care too much for each other, but they know each other far better than
anyone else could know them, and so they stay together. It could be the
tempestuous romance between the sad older gentleman and the saucy young
lady, where everyone knows she sleeps with anyone and the old man seems
to be a fool to keep her, but every morning it is in his bed where she
wakes.
But the important thing to understand it this: in such a close
relationship, if one of the partners is sick, so is the other. I suppose
this is the point you had intended to make. Can the USA nurse Mexico
into health, into equality, to become a true peer? Or should we simply
say "oh man, she's sick as hell, she gets better on her own or she
doesn't get better". Part of that sort of decision is based on how the
partner would treat the other if the conditions or situation were
reversed. If Mexico is spewing pus and violently rejecting medical
attention, one is tempted to leave Mexico alone to heal or die as nature
and the course of the illness will require. If the USA is doing the
same, Mexican disdain and inattention should be expected.
Again, more ignorance. You know nothing about Mexico.
On the other hand, I wrote my economics thesis on Mexico's 20th century
economic history. I can tell you that Mexico is changing much faster
than your perceptions about Mexico.
Post by T Jr Hardman
Post by Zerge
Mexico is in a transitional period between third and first world. If
you had finished HS, maybe you would know that Mexico is a member of
the OCDE, and is a middle income country. But of course you don't know
these kinds of things. It's not your fault; you are a victim of your
environment.
Mexico, in my opinion, is in the position of most of the USA in the year
1950. The US had just won WWII, was barely recovering from the Dust Bowl
and the Depression and was doing so mostly by default; we had put an end
to the war with the application of vast scientific projects that
harnessed the power of the atomic nucleus and microwave radiation and
extremely basic computers (RADAR). Yet on the Indian Reservations the
native-americans lived a worse life than they did live when Cristobal
Colon "discovered" the New World, and most US citizens were dirt-poor
farmers or urban working poor who might not even be within reach of the
telephone or central-electric systems. Air-conditioning existed but was
not in much use, but a sudden rush of prosperity began to put the
products of modern science and industry into every home, even when the
people only knew how to operate a product, and had no idea at all of the
operating principles or even how their own political system was worked.
Yes, that's a good assessment, finally you got something almost right
:)
Post by T Jr Hardman
The way I hear it, in the most remote villages of Mexico there are
people with cellphones. They have not the least idea how to use the
text-messaging features because they cannot read.
Mexico has a 90%+ literacy rate. 90% of Mexico's population has access
to basic education.

But they certainly use
Post by T Jr Hardman
the phones to pass news all around the countryside with the voice link,
even though they don't really understand how any of this can function.
"It's some kind of radio, whatever radio is, really, but you can choose
who will be the only one to hear your radio call."
Cartoonish. Most people of the WORLD don't undersand the technical
details of cellular telephony for sure. But Mexico's rural population
has had access to radio and television for decades.
Post by T Jr Hardman
Mexico will be a First World Country when a certain percentage of the
population can easily understand and teach others the very basics of
radio, when a smaller percentage of the population knows the details,
and when an even smaller -- but still significant -- percentage of the
population can build a radio and perhaps a smaller percentage can design
a cellphone.
Yeah, knowing the technical details of how a cellphone work will propel
us into the first world, sure :)
Post by T Jr Hardman
Interestingly, right around WWII some outrageously large percentage of
the US population had built a "crystal radio set" from parts and had at
least a basic grasp of the math behind it, if not exactly being experts
in Maxwell's equations. Nowadays? Perhaps we in the USA are closer than
we dare think to being techno-barbarians, using tools of which we
haven't the least understanding. Probably almost nobody here has build a
crystal radio set or has the slightest real understanding of Maxwell or
even Marconi.
Agreed. And it has nothing to do with nationality, but with
generations. When I was a kid in Mexico I built a radio too.
Post by T Jr Hardman
So perhaps the odd couple of Mexico and the USA are more equal than
either can know or will admit.
True, true.
Look at it this way. The North and South of the US went to war and
hated each other's guts. And now you are a single nation.
Are we on the path to A North American Union? Probably.
Post by T Jr Hardman
--
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak foolishness and remove all doubt.
--Aesop
The more unnatural anything is, the more it is
capable of becoming the object of dismal admiration.
--Thomas Paine, "Age of Reason"
Don Gabacho
2006-09-21 20:17:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zerge
Your conventional wisdom tells you that Mexico is very very very
corrupt. But your conventional wisdom is wrong. Mexico ranks about
average in the Corruption Index...
Right up there with Uganda.

You'd index the relative lumpiness of diarrhea.

Only the corrupt would put any value in a "Corruption Index".

Yo f
2006-09-21 15:55:39 UTC
Permalink
Dura advertencia de Brasil a Bolivia por el gas
 
"Le dije a Evo Morales: no puedes mantener una espada sobre la cabeza de
Brasil, porque nosotros también podremos poner la espada en tu
cabeza", manifestó el presidente Lula da Silva en una entrevista
televisiva
 
BRASILIA (AFP).— El presidente brasileño, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva,
instó al gobierno boliviano a tener conciencia de la "importancia de
Brasil", subrayando que Bolivia no tiene otro lugar donde colocar su
gas.
"Confío en que Bolivia tenga la exacta noción de la importancia de
Brasil para Bolivia, como Brasil tiene la exacta noción de lo que
significa el gas boliviano para Brasil", dijo Lula a la televisora
Globo.
"Le dije al presidente Evo Morales: Evo, no puedes mantener una espada
sobre la cabeza de Brasil porque tienes el gas, porque nosotros
también podremos poner la espada en tu cabeza, ya que nosotros somos
los que compramos tu gas, y si no nos lo vendes a nosotros, veo muy
difícil venderlo a alguien", advirtió.
Lula hizo estas declaraciones después de que el nuevo ministro de
Hidrocarburos de Bolivia, Carlos Villegas, hubiera anunciado el lunes
que aplicará todo el rigor del decreto de nacionalización del sector
en las negociaciones con petroleras multinacionales, en especial con la
estatal brasileña Petrobras, que está amenazada de perder el control
de sus dos refinerías allí sin compensación.
"Tenemos un comportamiento político de algunos ministros en Bolivia
que no se ajusta con la mesa de negociación [...] lo que vemos en la
mesa es una cosa y lo que vemos en la prensa es otra. Hay mucha
divergencia", sostuvo Lula.
El mandatario dijo confiar en que habrá un acuerdo entre Brasil y
Bolivia. Ambos gobiernos negocian la nacionalización de los activos de
Petrobras en Bolivia (donde la estatal brasileña es la principal
inversora internacional) y el precio que Brasil pagará por el gas
boliviano que importa masivamente.
"Lo que el presidente Evo me ha dicho es que vamos a llegar a un acuerdo
y que vamos a negociar, y yo creo en eso", aseguró Lula. Y también
indicó que tras las elecciones del 1° de octubre en Brasil, se
reunirá con Morales.
"Bolivia sólo puede ganar con su asociación con Brasil, no sólo
porque tiene que vendernos su gas, somos sus compradores, sino que
también podemos ayudar a Bolivia a tener un desarrollo razonable",
dijo Lula, quien sugirió dos posibles proyectos conjuntos en los que
Brasil estaría interesado en invertir: un polo petroquímico y una
hidroeléctrica en el río Madera.

Link corto: 9-21-06 http://www.lanacion.com.ar/84233
Yo f
2006-09-21 15:55:34 UTC
Permalink
Dura advertencia de Brasil a Bolivia por el gas
 
"Le dije a Evo Morales: no puedes mantener una espada sobre la cabeza de
Brasil, porque nosotros también podremos poner la espada en tu
cabeza", manifestó el presidente Lula da Silva en una entrevista
televisiva
 
BRASILIA (AFP).— El presidente brasileño, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva,
instó al gobierno boliviano a tener conciencia de la "importancia de
Brasil", subrayando que Bolivia no tiene otro lugar donde colocar su
gas.
"Confío en que Bolivia tenga la exacta noción de la importancia de
Brasil para Bolivia, como Brasil tiene la exacta noción de lo que
significa el gas boliviano para Brasil", dijo Lula a la televisora
Globo.
"Le dije al presidente Evo Morales: Evo, no puedes mantener una espada
sobre la cabeza de Brasil porque tienes el gas, porque nosotros
también podremos poner la espada en tu cabeza, ya que nosotros somos
los que compramos tu gas, y si no nos lo vendes a nosotros, veo muy
difícil venderlo a alguien", advirtió.
Lula hizo estas declaraciones después de que el nuevo ministro de
Hidrocarburos de Bolivia, Carlos Villegas, hubiera anunciado el lunes
que aplicará todo el rigor del decreto de nacionalización del sector
en las negociaciones con petroleras multinacionales, en especial con la
estatal brasileña Petrobras, que está amenazada de perder el control
de sus dos refinerías allí sin compensación.
"Tenemos un comportamiento político de algunos ministros en Bolivia
que no se ajusta con la mesa de negociación [...] lo que vemos en la
mesa es una cosa y lo que vemos en la prensa es otra. Hay mucha
divergencia", sostuvo Lula.
El mandatario dijo confiar en que habrá un acuerdo entre Brasil y
Bolivia. Ambos gobiernos negocian la nacionalización de los activos de
Petrobras en Bolivia (donde la estatal brasileña es la principal
inversora internacional) y el precio que Brasil pagará por el gas
boliviano que importa masivamente.
"Lo que el presidente Evo me ha dicho es que vamos a llegar a un acuerdo
y que vamos a negociar, y yo creo en eso", aseguró Lula. Y también
indicó que tras las elecciones del 1° de octubre en Brasil, se
reunirá con Morales.
"Bolivia sólo puede ganar con su asociación con Brasil, no sólo
porque tiene que vendernos su gas, somos sus compradores, sino que
también podemos ayudar a Bolivia a tener un desarrollo razonable",
dijo Lula, quien sugirió dos posibles proyectos conjuntos en los que
Brasil estaría interesado en invertir: un polo petroquímico y una
hidroeléctrica en el río Madera.

Link corto: 9-21-06 http://www.lanacion.com.ar/84233
Yo f
2006-09-21 15:55:44 UTC
Permalink
Dura advertencia de Brasil a Bolivia por el gas
 
"Le dije a Evo Morales: no puedes mantener una espada sobre la cabeza de
Brasil, porque nosotros también podremos poner la espada en tu
cabeza", manifestó el presidente Lula da Silva en una entrevista
televisiva
 
BRASILIA (AFP).— El presidente brasileño, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva,
instó al gobierno boliviano a tener conciencia de la "importancia de
Brasil", subrayando que Bolivia no tiene otro lugar donde colocar su
gas.
"Confío en que Bolivia tenga la exacta noción de la importancia de
Brasil para Bolivia, como Brasil tiene la exacta noción de lo que
significa el gas boliviano para Brasil", dijo Lula a la televisora
Globo.
"Le dije al presidente Evo Morales: Evo, no puedes mantener una espada
sobre la cabeza de Brasil porque tienes el gas, porque nosotros
también podremos poner la espada en tu cabeza, ya que nosotros somos
los que compramos tu gas, y si no nos lo vendes a nosotros, veo muy
difícil venderlo a alguien", advirtió.
Lula hizo estas declaraciones después de que el nuevo ministro de
Hidrocarburos de Bolivia, Carlos Villegas, hubiera anunciado el lunes
que aplicará todo el rigor del decreto de nacionalización del sector
en las negociaciones con petroleras multinacionales, en especial con la
estatal brasileña Petrobras, que está amenazada de perder el control
de sus dos refinerías allí sin compensación.
"Tenemos un comportamiento político de algunos ministros en Bolivia
que no se ajusta con la mesa de negociación [...] lo que vemos en la
mesa es una cosa y lo que vemos en la prensa es otra. Hay mucha
divergencia", sostuvo Lula.
El mandatario dijo confiar en que habrá un acuerdo entre Brasil y
Bolivia. Ambos gobiernos negocian la nacionalización de los activos de
Petrobras en Bolivia (donde la estatal brasileña es la principal
inversora internacional) y el precio que Brasil pagará por el gas
boliviano que importa masivamente.
"Lo que el presidente Evo me ha dicho es que vamos a llegar a un acuerdo
y que vamos a negociar, y yo creo en eso", aseguró Lula. Y también
indicó que tras las elecciones del 1° de octubre en Brasil, se
reunirá con Morales.
"Bolivia sólo puede ganar con su asociación con Brasil, no sólo
porque tiene que vendernos su gas, somos sus compradores, sino que
también podemos ayudar a Bolivia a tener un desarrollo razonable",
dijo Lula, quien sugirió dos posibles proyectos conjuntos en los que
Brasil estaría interesado en invertir: un polo petroquímico y una
hidroeléctrica en el río Madera.

Link corto: 9-21-06 http://www.lanacion.com.ar/84233
Yo f
2006-09-21 15:55:48 UTC
Permalink
Dura advertencia de Brasil a Bolivia por el gas
 
"Le dije a Evo Morales: no puedes mantener una espada sobre la cabeza de
Brasil, porque nosotros también podremos poner la espada en tu
cabeza", manifestó el presidente Lula da Silva en una entrevista
televisiva
 
BRASILIA (AFP).— El presidente brasileño, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva,
instó al gobierno boliviano a tener conciencia de la "importancia de
Brasil", subrayando que Bolivia no tiene otro lugar donde colocar su
gas.
"Confío en que Bolivia tenga la exacta noción de la importancia de
Brasil para Bolivia, como Brasil tiene la exacta noción de lo que
significa el gas boliviano para Brasil", dijo Lula a la televisora
Globo.
"Le dije al presidente Evo Morales: Evo, no puedes mantener una espada
sobre la cabeza de Brasil porque tienes el gas, porque nosotros
también podremos poner la espada en tu cabeza, ya que nosotros somos
los que compramos tu gas, y si no nos lo vendes a nosotros, veo muy
difícil venderlo a alguien", advirtió.
Lula hizo estas declaraciones después de que el nuevo ministro de
Hidrocarburos de Bolivia, Carlos Villegas, hubiera anunciado el lunes
que aplicará todo el rigor del decreto de nacionalización del sector
en las negociaciones con petroleras multinacionales, en especial con la
estatal brasileña Petrobras, que está amenazada de perder el control
de sus dos refinerías allí sin compensación.
"Tenemos un comportamiento político de algunos ministros en Bolivia
que no se ajusta con la mesa de negociación [...] lo que vemos en la
mesa es una cosa y lo que vemos en la prensa es otra. Hay mucha
divergencia", sostuvo Lula.
El mandatario dijo confiar en que habrá un acuerdo entre Brasil y
Bolivia. Ambos gobiernos negocian la nacionalización de los activos de
Petrobras en Bolivia (donde la estatal brasileña es la principal
inversora internacional) y el precio que Brasil pagará por el gas
boliviano que importa masivamente.
"Lo que el presidente Evo me ha dicho es que vamos a llegar a un acuerdo
y que vamos a negociar, y yo creo en eso", aseguró Lula. Y también
indicó que tras las elecciones del 1° de octubre en Brasil, se
reunirá con Morales.
"Bolivia sólo puede ganar con su asociación con Brasil, no sólo
porque tiene que vendernos su gas, somos sus compradores, sino que
también podemos ayudar a Bolivia a tener un desarrollo razonable",
dijo Lula, quien sugirió dos posibles proyectos conjuntos en los que
Brasil estaría interesado en invertir: un polo petroquímico y una
hidroeléctrica en el río Madera.

Link corto: 9-21-06 http://www.lanacion.com.ar/84233
Yo f
2006-09-21 15:55:58 UTC
Permalink
Dura advertencia de Brasil a Bolivia por el gas
 
"Le dije a Evo Morales: no puedes mantener una espada sobre la cabeza de
Brasil, porque nosotros también podremos poner la espada en tu
cabeza", manifestó el presidente Lula da Silva en una entrevista
televisiva
 
BRASILIA (AFP).— El presidente brasileño, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva,
instó al gobierno boliviano a tener conciencia de la "importancia de
Brasil", subrayando que Bolivia no tiene otro lugar donde colocar su
gas.
"Confío en que Bolivia tenga la exacta noción de la importancia de
Brasil para Bolivia, como Brasil tiene la exacta noción de lo que
significa el gas boliviano para Brasil", dijo Lula a la televisora
Globo.
"Le dije al presidente Evo Morales: Evo, no puedes mantener una espada
sobre la cabeza de Brasil porque tienes el gas, porque nosotros
también podremos poner la espada en tu cabeza, ya que nosotros somos
los que compramos tu gas, y si no nos lo vendes a nosotros, veo muy
difícil venderlo a alguien", advirtió.
Lula hizo estas declaraciones después de que el nuevo ministro de
Hidrocarburos de Bolivia, Carlos Villegas, hubiera anunciado el lunes
que aplicará todo el rigor del decreto de nacionalización del sector
en las negociaciones con petroleras multinacionales, en especial con la
estatal brasileña Petrobras, que está amenazada de perder el control
de sus dos refinerías allí sin compensación.
"Tenemos un comportamiento político de algunos ministros en Bolivia
que no se ajusta con la mesa de negociación [...] lo que vemos en la
mesa es una cosa y lo que vemos en la prensa es otra. Hay mucha
divergencia", sostuvo Lula.
El mandatario dijo confiar en que habrá un acuerdo entre Brasil y
Bolivia. Ambos gobiernos negocian la nacionalización de los activos de
Petrobras en Bolivia (donde la estatal brasileña es la principal
inversora internacional) y el precio que Brasil pagará por el gas
boliviano que importa masivamente.
"Lo que el presidente Evo me ha dicho es que vamos a llegar a un acuerdo
y que vamos a negociar, y yo creo en eso", aseguró Lula. Y también
indicó que tras las elecciones del 1° de octubre en Brasil, se
reunirá con Morales.
"Bolivia sólo puede ganar con su asociación con Brasil, no sólo
porque tiene que vendernos su gas, somos sus compradores, sino que
también podemos ayudar a Bolivia a tener un desarrollo razonable",
dijo Lula, quien sugirió dos posibles proyectos conjuntos en los que
Brasil estaría interesado en invertir: un polo petroquímico y una
hidroeléctrica en el río Madera.

Link corto: 9-21-06 http://www.lanacion.com.ar/84233
Ray Elizondo
2006-09-19 21:58:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jose
International Herald Tribune, France - 10 hours ago
MEXICO CITY Mexico on Monday ordered grocers to pull products
containing fresh US spinach off their shelves and warned its citizens
against eating them, after ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/19/america/LA_GEN_Mexico_US_Tainted_Spinach.php
Unfortunately, the contamination was due to the pickers, not washing their
hands, after defecating. Sooo!
Betrayed Nation
2006-09-19 22:41:55 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:58:04 GMT, "Ray Elizondo"
Post by Ray Elizondo
Post by Jose
International Herald Tribune, France - 10 hours ago
MEXICO CITY Mexico on Monday ordered grocers to pull products
containing fresh US spinach off their shelves and warned its citizens
against eating them, after ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/19/america/LA_GEN_Mexico_US_Tainted_Spinach.php
Unfortunately, the contamination was due to the pickers, not washing their
hands, after defecating. Sooo!
Which is not unusual at al since Mexicans are very dirty people and
disgusting humans. It is hard to believe that they are even considered
human.
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